Wednesday, November 16, 2011

Syria is looking lonelier by the day Why #Turkey #Jordan Turned Away From #Syria


Gateway House ICGR
Why  Turned Away From  
Syrian activists in TurkeyEd Ou for The New York Times
Turks and Syrian activists in the border town of Gorentas.
Syria is looking lonelier by the day. The king of Jordan called for Bashar al-Assad to step down, crossing off one more ally in a year that has cost the regime many others. Even Turkey, which for a decade was focused on building alliances with Syria and Iran, has reversed that approach and begun hosting Syrian defectors who attack the Assad regime. What does this change say about Turkey? What will it mean for the region?

The Arab Spring of 2011 further stressed this problem, especially in Libya, and soon Ankara’s policy makers realized that insisting on the “zero problems” policy could put them into the cynical position of having zero problems with dictators.
That is why in Syria — which used to be the A.K.P.’s Exhibit A for “zero problems” — Erdogan and his government did not hesitate to condemn the Assad regime’s brutality and give support to the Syrian opposition. (The religious and cultural affinity between the A.K.P. and the Sunni majority in Syria, which creates the backbone of the Syrian opposition, probably also helped.)
The bottom line is that the A.K.P. presents itself as a democratic force that was able to break Turkey’s decade-old military guardianship. It also takes pride in being admired by other democratic forces in the region, and especially by Islamic-minded yet democratic-leaning parties, like the Ennahda in Tunisia.
That’s why Turkey will continue to be an enthusiastic supporter of the Arab Spring. With its 150-year-old synthesis of Islam and democracy, it will even be, as Ayatollah Shahroudi of Iran put it scornfully, the promoter of “liberal Islam.”
Sukuma
Victoria, BC
November 16th, 2011 4:12 am
There is a lot of suspicion in Arab states towards Turkey and its neo-Ottoman policy. The oppressive Ottoman legacy which came to an end with the First World War is hard to forget.
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levent
Upstate NY
November 16th, 2011 8:08 am
Assad is a thug, like Saddam, Qaddafi, etc. But if you look at the photos of his supporters _western dressed women - vs his AKP allied Sunni opposition, all covered up one step away from the burqa, it becomes even clearer where all this Arab Spring is heading. Take a poll amongst the Iranians and find out how much they've been enjoying their "Spring" since 1979! The New York Times has been relentless in supporting the AKP regardless of their assorted billion-dollar swindles through guest worker donations in Germany, their shenanigans against Israel, their locking up journalists at will without a trial, their selling off profitable state enterprises to their cronies at deep discounts, and now you give this wolf-in-sheep's clothing AKP apologist through his columns, pro-creation theory propagandist through his books and lectures, the lead article for a "debate" on why the foible premise of "zero problems with neighbors" proved untenable.
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sailhardy
Dorchester MA
November 16th, 2011 8:26 am
Turkey's credibility on moral issues is zero. Its unwillingness to acknowledge what Turkey did during World War I and its immediate aftermath is appalling. Turkey slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Armenian and Asia Minor Greek Christians, all of whom had been citizens of Turkey for centurie. To-date, Turkey's government will prosecute anyone who says Turkey did what it so clearly did. Turkey has no right to point a moral finger at anyone but itself. Its unwillingness to acknowledge its genocidal past means it feels free to do it again. The world should not allow Turkey a pass on genocide.
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hadarmen
NYC
November 16th, 2011 11:08 am
Sukuma
Victoria, BC
November 16th, 2011 4:12 am

There is a lot of suspicion in Arab states towards Turkey and its neo-Ottoman policy. The oppressive Ottoman legacy which came to an end with the First World War is hard to forget.

When bluntly putting the perception of empires role in the world without considering the chronology, is an attempt to put Turks and Turkish related states in the sutuation of authoritarian dictatorship positions.

Ottoman's were opressive towards their multinationalistic constituents and why you are not expressing how the jews were treated while they were always under constant danger of western annihilation.

or

what about the feeling of serbians towards to austria-hungarian empire, or polish towards to russian empire, or african's towards to British and western european empires.

There was a time before democracy's prevail, which was empirealistic age, all empires sustain their status what you are representing as a oppressive domination.

Simply Ottoman's neither infront ,nor behind the their era of empires in sense of human rights or democratization.

Lets do not distort the history. such as Ottomans were the only oppresive regime ever come to surface of earth.
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Mohamed
USA
November 16th, 2011 11:18 am
Interesting to see if Syria remains an isolated problem or drag the whole region into chaos. Lots of unsavory history to go around. Theology, nationalism, languages, ethnicity all are in play here. But no matter how many divisive issues at in play, the overriding urge of the people in the region to find a harmonious outcome would rule the day. The people were fooled for too long with divisive issues and they know very well that those do not serve any of their interests. No matter how ugly ways the dark forces of history are presented to them, people would reject them for something which would be good for the whole region.
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SAK
New Jersey
November 16th, 2011 11:45 am
Turkey's policy in a changing world order seems right. It could help Arab countries
evolve into democracies based on liberal Islam. It has to solve its Kurdish problem.
Its credibility is diminished so long Kurdish issue remain unresolved.
Erdogan is a good leader compared to European and America where timidity
is the hallmark of the leadership. Erdogan has the courage to speak out
clearly and publicly on issues compared to westerners whispering to each other
in the meetings. I prefer speaking to whispering.
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Texican
Austin
November 16th, 2011 11:50 am
I find it hard to understand the reasoning of commenters like levent and sailhardy above. Turkey is a struggling to become a modern and democratic state, and I believe they should have our support in so doing. The implication of levent is that Muslims in general and Arabs in particular should not be allowed to govern themselves democratically, lest they develop a political culture influenced by Islam. But how is such a development any different than Israel (rife with religious parties, many of whom make oppressive demands on the secular state) or the United States (one of two political groupings has become more or less a sectarian, Christian party)? Shiite Iran in the '70's is not predictive of contemporary Arab, especially Sunni, society. The halting steps toward democracy today in the Arab world do not seem markedly different than the same process in Europe, which of course also produced coups, inter-communal violence, fascist ideology, retrenchments, violence, etc.

I've spent time in Istanbul and with regular Turkish people, and the idea that they are fostering a culture of the burka or whatever seems absurd to me. Far from it, the AKP is if anything most comparable to the "Christian Democratic" parties that arose in Europe after WWII, with an emphasis on tradition, free markets and social justice. These should be America's natural allies in the region and we should encourage this development.

I agree with sailhardy in so far as I do believe the Turks do have to deal with their history, but the oppressively nationalistic political culture was the product of prior secular regimes backed by the military (in which nationalism was used as a counterweight to Islam), not the AKP which has been in power for only the last decade. It's actually the domestic opponents of the AKP who would be most likely to deny the Armenian genocide, support harsh press laws and generally glorify the activities of the "Young Turks" who promulgated the conditions that led to the Armenian issue. Conflating all Turks is no more enlightening than conflating all Americans. That said, when we are speaking of events nearly a century in the past, I would assert that they are not the most important issues facing Turkey. That sounds harsh, but the participants are mostly long-dead and are about as relevant to modern Turks as our Indian Wars are to modern Americans (ie, something to be vaguely ashamed of, but not as important as getting a decent job).

Anyway, very interesting topic, NYTimes. Turkey is going to remain an important ally of the United States; we simply have too many interests in common for this to be otherwise.
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Anniken
Harrisburg
November 16th, 2011 1:01 pm
Turkey is well-positioned to take the lead in stabilizing the region. Yes, she has internal problems (all identified in its earlier bid for EU membership). And also clear is that there are those who fear a drift away from the separation of religion and state that has been a hallmark of modern Turkey. But to condemn the current ruling government without listening closely is a mistake. Erdogan recently declared that he is a Muslim who heads a secular government - an important statement.Valhalla Press http://tinyurl.com/3nwffgn
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Kurt
NY
November 16th, 2011 1:23 pm
Oh, and when the zero problems with neighboring states policy was enacted Turkey had absolutely no idea they were dealing with authoritarian regimes? Methinks this sounds like self-exculpatory garbage. It is far more likely that Turkey became more confrontational with Mr Assad when his grip on his country slipped enough to induce a refugee problem on Turkey's borders and a possible loosening of restraints on the Kurdish population which straddles that divide. The probability is that the Turkish government has become convinced that Mr Assad's days in power are numbered and it pays to back the winning side (or, at least, not tick them off).
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sardar petal
NJ, USA
November 16th, 2011 1:50 pm
The Arabs got nothing in return for having stabbed Turks in the back on behest of Great Britain and France. They got Balfour declaration and Israel as their reward for having been taken for a ride by the British. They hopefully have learned the lesson--don't align with those with forked tongues!
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EK
California
November 16th, 2011 2:20 pm
sailhardy, so what you're saying is Turkey should ignore the massacre and not let refugees into Turkey, since it's not a perfect country? What kind of skewed logic is that?
And, why is it that everytime there is any sort of news about Turkey your likes put comments about World War I. Do you think Armenians were all innocent. They joined forces with Russians and fought against their own empire. They formed gangs to kill innocent civilians. Nobody likes a traitor.
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akin caldiran
lansing, michgan
November 16th, 2011 2:51 pm
it is sad that some anti TURK's says TURKEY credibility on moral issues is zero because world war I for armenian and greek cristians genocid, those things did happnied yes it did but it was OTOMAN emp. not TURKEY did that. WORLD war II in GERMANY they killed all those jaws but today GERMANY doesnt put to trial for these things , YUGOSLAVYA they kill all those muslims but you dont hear that every day, TURKEY is not a perfect country but most free muslim country in the worldl am a 77 years old TURK this is not a fair statment
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Kevin Sullivan
London
November 16th, 2011 2:53 pm
Turkey. rejected by Europe, used, and, abused by the USA & NATO, is no longer prepared to be a pawn of others, or tow their line when it is against its national interest, as it has done so many times in the past! It is formidable power in the region, creating its own sphere of influence, and, demands respect where in the past it has not been given! The game has changed, and, the emergence of Turkey as a leading independent player needs to be accepted, and, respected by the countries whose influence in the region is on the wain!
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bocacassidy
denver CO
November 16th, 2011 7:05 pm
I have spent much time in Turkey ....The people almost entirely excellent characters .
They optimizing maintaining order with a good level of personal freedom ...as a secular - non repressive nation of Muslim culture ..The destruction of the Ottoman Empire by British opportunists post WW1, and the concoction of newly manufactured nations ...Jordan , Syria , Lebanon , Israel ...etc created a legacy of chaos that continues til today .
The future of the Middle East is obscure....but.... "Her Saba Taza Bir Baslangictir " ....
"Every day is a new beginning "
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